Review: New Online Drum Lesson Course

Here is where you all need to post your info on cymbals for our new project only. Thanks!!

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DRUM.NET ROCKS

Alloys


Bell Bronze - 80% copper 20% tin

Paiste Signature Alloy - Phosphor Bronze, tin content 13-18% according to the patent + about 1% phosphor The signature alloy is generally around 85/15

B18 bronze - 82% copper 18% tin not sure what cymbals are used with this alloy now, They were used with b18 meinl marathons

ZHT/Soundcaster B12? bronze - 88% copper 12% tin

MB10 bronze - 90% copper 10% tin

Malleable/B8 bronze - 92% copper 8% tin

Brass - 62% copper 38% zinc

Meinl FX9/new generation x alloy - 69% copper 15% manganese 15% zinc 1% aluminum

__________________
Dave

My Wishlist:
Aquarian Superkick BD head
SALUDA CYMBALS
Some new boom stands for those Saludas
New tom batter & reso heads
Shure SM57

Cymbals are a drummers most personal choice when it comes to picking out gear, and are also the cause of many arguments and disputes between fellow drummers. Some drummers think that all cymbals are basically the same and you just buy whatever because it doesn’t really matter, but the truth is that every single cymbal is different, even two from in the same line, from the same company, in the same size, and with the same weight. This is a breakdown of cymbals, from the alloys that make up the pies, to hammering and lathing and how they affect the sound, sizes, weights, applications, and everything I can think of to include here.

Alloys
There are many different kinds of alloys that go into cymbals, the most common being b20 bronze, which is generally thought to have the “best” sound, and while what is best is completely subjective, there are cymbals to suit ever sound possibility.

Brass:
A mixture of copper and zinc. Brass is only used in the cheapest of cymbals because it is very bright and harsh sounding, not too pleasing to the ear. Brass cymbals include zildjian planet z, sabian solar, meinl hcs, paiste 101, 201 and pst3.

B8:
B8 bronze is a combination of copper and tin, 92% copper with 8% tin to be exact. “b” series alloys always have a number to denote the amount of tin in the alloy. B8 is a bright sounding cymbal alloy that is preferred to some drummers. A common misconception about b8 is that it is a cheap, bad sounding alloy. This is untrue. While many sheet cymbals (we will discuss those next) are made of b8, there are some top-of-the-line cast cymbals that are also made of b8 bronze. B8 sheet cymbals include zildjian zbt and zxt, sabian b8 and b8 pro, paiste pst5, meinl mcs. B8 cast cymbals include paiste 2002, alpha, rude, and giant beat, and meinl amun and classics.

B10:
This is another combination of copper and tin. While a little darker in nature than b8, it is still brighter than alloys with a higher tin content. As far as I know the only the only b10 cymbals currently in production are meinl mb10 series.

B12:
Following the pattern of the previous 2 alloys, b12 is darker than b10 but brighter than alloys with higher tin content. These also come in both sheet and cast versions. The only sheet b12 cymbals that I know of are zildjian zhts. The only cast b12 cymbals that I know of are meinl soundcaster customs. There is a rumor about that these cymbals are prone to breaking easier than most but I have no personal experience with them so I don’t know for sure.

B15:
This is a new one for me. I have not yet confirmed it conclusively but I hear a lot of tell that paiste signature cymbals are made of this alloy. However, it makes sense that they are made of b15 because many drummers have complained about the fragility of such expensive cymbals, and the alloy is close to the b12s that also have this alloy.

B20:
This is the big boy. Whenever someone talks of “professional” cymbals, this is usually the alloy theyre talking about. Dark, shimmering, bright, you name it and b20 can deliver. Cheap cymbals are made of b20, expensive cymbals are made of it too. Sheet, cast, whatever, you can get it in b20. sabians xs20 series is a b20 sheet cymbal, as are paiste twentys. Cast b20 includes zildjian a, a custom, aramand, k, k custom, and z custom, sabian aa, aax, hh, hhx, vault, paragon, and most of the signature line, meinl byzance and mb20, all cymbals from Saluda, wuhan, Istanbul, bosphorus, masterwork, Turkish, and turk masters.

B23:
This is a new alloy to the arsenal of drumming, and as far as I know only dream cymbals are made of this. I have never personally seen or played a cymbal by dream but I am expecting this to be a darker, drier alloy than the b20. this, however, is unconfirmed.

Meinl also employs a special alloy called the fx9 which is a blend of copper, zinc, and manganese. The cymbals made from this alloy are in their generation x series which is mostly used for experimental music and electronic because the sound is very unconventional.

As far as pricing on all of these cymbals goes, it is relative to location and line. B20 cymbals tend to be the most expensive but cast b8 is right up there too. Beginner cymbals, usually the sheet bronze or brass cymbals, are the cheapest because they require much less work to make and can be produced at a faster rate.

One last thing to mention is that ratings can often differ from actual alloy. A b20 bronze cymbal may contain up to 25% tin, or less than 20%. Cymbal making is not as much a science as it is an art and while the basic sound characteristics are determined by the structure of the metal, it is the artist that truly makes the cymbal sound good. Today, there are few artists still left in cymbal making within the big companies, but for the ones that still exist they make some of the best cymbals in the world. The art of a cymbal is more in the hammering and lathing, and that will be discussed in another section.

__________________
-chaz

pull me under, im not afraid

living on your knees, confority...
...or dying on your feet for honesty?
myspace.com/anavriniv

Sheet vs Cast
This is generally the separation between beginner and professional cymbals, and when most drummers talk about b8 being a cheap, beginner alloy they are thinking of sabians b8 cymbal line, which is both b8 alloy and a sheet bronze cymbal. B8 is not a bad alloy, just different. Sheet vs cast cymbals, however, is a more one sided argument. Just about everyone agrees that cast cymbals are far superior to sheet cymbals, and there is a good bit of justification for this.

Sheet cymbals:
These cymbals are named thus because of the way they are formed. These cymbals come in large, square sheets and are pressed into shape with a large machine that shapes the cymbal, forms the bell, and cuts the mounting hole all at once. This process can be done very quickly using prefabricated materials which reduces cost because it reduces labor and time. These cymbals are cheaper for this reason, but they also lack the sound quality of cast cymbals. With sheet bronze, a plate is formed and then bent into shape. These bends cause the metal to stretch in different places and create a completely different sound form cast cymbals, usually they have less tone to them and a harsher sound overall.

Cast cymbals:
Just like sheet cymbals, these are named for the forming process. With cast cymbals, large ingots (blocks) of metal are melted down into batches of alloy used in the cymbal making process. The molten alloy is them poured into a ball and slowly flattened into a circle, pressed into shape, drilled, hammered, and lathed. The casting process gives the cymbal character and the hammering and lathing change the sound according to the required characteristics of the cymbal. Cast cymbals make up the “high end” spectrum of the cymbal world and are more expensive because of the added complication of the process.


Sound Altering
Apart from the bronze alloy and the forming process, there are other ways to alter the sound of a cymbal. The three main cymbal sound altering techniques are hammering, lathing, and bell forming.

Bell forming:
The bell of a cymbal is formed when the cymbal is shaped, either with a press or by hand according to the brand and line of cymbal. The bell changes both the sound of the cymbal and the volume. Some cymbals are formed without bells, and these are usually called “flat” cymbals. Flat cymbals will have more wash than a cymbal with a bell, but the sound will not build as the cymbal is progressively played, and a clear sound will be heard continuously. A small bell will also have a significant amount of wash, but will allow the cymbal to build as it is played. As the bell gets progressively larger, the cymbal will build more. Generally, as the bell of a cymbal gets larger the cymbal also becomes thicker which will make the cymbal have less wash and a more defined sound. To fully understand this concept one must play cymbals with varying bell sizes and thicknesses, but this is a basic overview of what to look for concerning cymbal bells.

Hammering:
Hammering is the essential step in forming a cymbals sound. Just as the name implies, the cymbal is struck with a specialized hammer to compact the metal and create different sound patterns. Despite popular thought, all cymbals are hammered and just because you cant always see hammer marks doesn’t mean that it wasn’t done. There are two main forms of hammering, hand hammering and machine hammering. Among these two types of hamming, there are two types of machine hammering, uniform and random. The most common type of hammering is uniform machine hammering. With this type, cymbals are placed into a special machine that hammers the cymbal in a specific pattern according to type and desired sound. Low end cymbals and ones that are bright sounding are uniform machine hammered. This technique not only is faster and cheaper than the other two types, but it creates cymbals that are much more similar to one another than the other two types do. For example, two cymbals of the same size and weigh, from the same brand and line will sound much closer to each other if they are uniformly machine hammered than if they are randomly machine hammered or hand hammered.
Random machine hammering is the second type of cymbal hammering. This type is meant to emulate the sound characteristics of hand hammering, but at the same time be cheaper and faster. These types of cymbals have a more complex sound to them because the hammering marks are unevenly spaced, made with differing amounts of force, and randomly placed. The random hammering of a cymbal means that even within the same size, brand, line, and type of cymbal, 2 identical cymbals will have completely different sounds.
Hand hammering is the third type of cymbal hammering. Hand hammering has the same effect on cymbals as random machine hammering because the former is based off of hand hammering techniques. The only difference in these two types is that hand hammering is done by human hand opposed to by a machine. Some feel that the human touch makes the cymbal sound even better.

Lathing:
Lathing is a technique that shaves a thin layer of metal off of either side of a cymbal in order to make the surface uniform. The cymbal is allowed to have a brighter sound this way, has a greater sustain, and more even texture. Unlathed, or “raw”, cymbals are darker and drier than lathed cymbals, they have a low pitch and lose their sound faster.
There is also partial lathing of a cymbal, which changes the sound. 2 types of partial lathing include banded lathing and raw bell lathing. Banded lathing is where strips, or bands, of the cymbal are alternately lathed and unlathed. The bands run around the circumference of the cymbal, not from bell to edge. Some cymbals are lathed and unlathed by halves, and some have up to 5 or 6 bands. Banded lathing allows a cymbal to have a dark, traditional sound with a quick decay, but also allow it to open up quickly and shimmer.
Raw bell lathing is where the entirety of a cymbal is lathed but the bell is left raw. Raw bell cymbals have a bright initial sound with complex, darker undertones. The raw bell gives more modern cymbals a hint of tradition.

__________________
-chaz

pull me under, im not afraid

living on your knees, confority...
...or dying on your feet for honesty?
myspace.com/anavriniv

We will now start to edit all of this section and get it ready for it's final posting. Thanks to all who have helped with it.


How do I care for my cymbals?

Their life expectancy depends largely on usage. One played with care and good technique will last longer than one played rigorously with poor technique. Proper care helps maintain the musical integrity of the instrument. Abusive treatment, neglect, and incorrect playing habits all contribute to metal fatigue which can diminish tonal quality or even cause cymbal fractures.

Follow these 4 easy guidelines to ensure a long life for your cymbals:


1. Play It Right
Avoid striking cymbals directly on their edge. Crash cymbals, especially, should be hit with a glancing blow, a little off center. Striking with a slight twist of the wrist also helps avoid breakage and allows crash cymbals to “open up.”

2. Choose the Right Cymbal
The sound quality of a cymbal is determined by its alloy content, size, shape, hammering and lathing pattern. Trying to force a cymbal to produce volume beyond its range can cause breakage. There are cymbals for every style of music. Match your cymbal to your specific needs.

3. Protect Your Investment
Always carry your cymbals in a padded cymbal bag or a protective cymbal case.
Store your cymbals immediately whenever you break down your drumset.
When cymbals are not in use for prolonged periods of time, wrap cymbals separately with a piece of cloth to protect their edges and surfaces; be especially careful of the bottom edge.
Keep your cymbals away from extreme cold or heat.

4. Set-Up Basics

Avoid Metal-to-Metal Contact
Place a sturdy nylon or rubber sleeve around the cymbal tilter rod when mounting your cymbals to prevent center hole deformation and cracking. Always use top and bottom felts.

Keep It Loose
Do not over-tighten the wing nut. This can cause cracks around the center hole. Also, a clamped cymbal will not vibrate freely and often sounds choked. For HiHats, keep the clutch medium-tight so that the top cymbal moves freely.

How Do I Choose My Next Cymbal?
Decide exactly what kind of playing your cymbal will be used for. For example, if you are looking for a crash, will it be used for loud explosive crashes, softer, more exotic crashes, fast “choke” effects, special effects, or a combination of these?

What type of music to be played: Latin, Funk, Jazz, Heavy Metal, Country, Big Band, or Rock.

Going to the Store - “THE GOLDEN RULES”
Always bring your own personal drumsticks with you to pick out any new cymbal, as you will feel more comfortable with them and react more naturally when playing. Relying on whatever sticks happen to be at the store can give you a totally misleading picture of the cymbal.

Bring another drummer or musician whose ears you trust to stand back at varying distances from the cymbal while you play it to hear how it sounds and projects “out front”. Also, have them play the cymbal while you stand out front. Sometimes a cymbal heard up close can sound nothing like you imagined it would from a distance.

Bring other cymbals from your set-up to play with the new cymbal. You will be able to hear how well the new cymbal either contrasts with or compliments the other cymbal sounds. Trust your own ears! After all, you are developing YOUR sound.

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DRUM.NET ROCKS

Selecting Your Cymbals

What style of music do you play? Do you know what cymbals and sounds you want? Some people have problems with the cymbals they choose. “My cymbal sounded great in the store, but when I played it in my band it didn't sound the same” or “I bought this cymbal only a couple of months ago and it's already broken”. Often people make these comments because sometimes they buy the wrong cymbals for their needs.

For example, a very thin cymbal sounds great when 'tested' (often tapped with a finger or 'played' lightly with a stick) in a store. That's because thinner cymbals respond easily. But if you're bashing out hard rock at the local club, that cymbal simply isn't strong enough to survive. So, our advice:
Consider where and how you'll be playing the cymbal,
Test it in the shop as you would if you were playing 'live' (go on, HIT it!) All that tapping with your finger, isn't really going to reveal what you really need to hear, and
Try to create as 'normal' a situation as you can when you select a cymbal in a store. It's a totally different environment from where you would normally play.
Medium weight models are a good starting point. From there you can move up or down in weights until you find suitable sounds. The ride delivers your rhythm playing, so it should be heavier than the crashes, which should 'explode' with sound on contact.

Tips

Set the cymbal on a stand and angle it as you would in your set-up. Then sit and play it as you normally would. This will reveal how it feels and how much sound you will hear from it in actual playing position.
When 'testing' cymbals put yourself in the frame of mind as if you are playing with your band and 'play' the cymbal at a similar volume. Play it as light and as loud as you would and listen to where the sound 'kicks in' or 'kicks out'. Some cymbals perform best within certain volume ranges. It's good if you can test it with your other cymbals: bring those to the store.
Have the salesperson or a friend play the cymbal while you walk around the store listening to it. Does it project? Is it musical enough? Is it too loud? Not loud enough?
Use your own drumsticks.
The opinions of others can be helpful in making the correct choice. The drum specialist at your music store can be a good source of information, so don't be shy, ask questions and get opinions.
Be careful. The cymbal you like may not be the best one for your needs. Some simple rules: If you're a hard hitter or playing loud, choose bigger and heavier cymbals. They put out more volume and bigger sounds. Plus, heavier models are more durable and less likely to break.
Smaller/thinner models are best for low- to mid-volume playing. Thinner crashes are not durable or loud enough to play as main crashes in high-volume situations. Heavier rides and hi-hats will give you more definite sticking, for cleaner, clearer and more penetrating strokes.
Thinner cymbals are the ones that sound best when tapped by a finger… so play all the cymbals you're testing like you mean it to get the most accurate responses.

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DRUM.NET ROCKS

Sabian Warranty info.


WARRANTY


Does SABIAN have a warranty program?
All SABIAN cymbal series are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials for a period of 2 years from original date of purchase. A 6-month Warranty applies to Solar by SABIAN. Cymbals replaced under our North American Warranty will be shipped only to an address in the US or Canada. If, after inspection by Sabian personnel, it is determined that the cymbal failed under normal use, a replacement cymbal of the same size and series will be provided free of charge. Top

How do I return my broken cymbal for warranty?
In North America to obtain warranty service, ship the cymbals prepaid along with a copy of the dated proof of purchase to the following;


In the USA.
SABIAN Inc,
100 Enterprise Drive,
Marshfield, MA.
02050

In the USA, please call 1-800-81-SABIAN to request an RA #

In Canada
SABIAN,
#219 Main St.
Meductic, NB
E6H 2L5

Please allow 4-6 weeks for processing and return shipping. Top

I also purchased an extended warranty from the Dealer with my SABIAN’s.
SABIAN does not offer an extended warranty. This is an option offered by some dealers. In cases where the cymbal is no longer covered by SABIAN’s warranty but is under the extended warranty it has to be returned to the dealer who sold the extended warranty for warranty service. Top

I don’t live in the USA or Canada, is there still a warranty?
As warranty laws vary from country to country, you will need to check with the dealer where you purchased the cymbal for warranty details in any country outside North America, as the warranty is administered by the Sabian distributor in the respective country.Top

Do I Get Warranty Coverage If I Buy My SABIAN's From Another Country?
Example I live in the UK but bought my SABIAN’s from a USA dealer
SABIAN does not have a world wide warranty policy. So any warranty is applicable in the country you purchased your cymbal from. For example: If you live in the UK and you order a cymbal via the internet from the USA, your warranty is only valid in the USA, NOT in the UK.

Cymbals replaced under our North American warranty will be shipped only to an address in the US or Canada.

There are several reasons for this. Because of the high cost of shipping etc we can not expect our distributor or agent to supply replacements for products that they did not sell. Most if not all counties restrict the importation of free goods. The taxes and duties sometimes are double or triple the original value of the products. Other countries do not allow for any free goods to be shipped to a consumer.

If you have problems with the cymbal, you would need to return it to your source of purchase in the USA for evaluation of the problem and (possible) replacement. All shipping costs to and from would be your responsibility. Ultimately this could become expensive so consider this next time you see a ‘great deal’ that you can’t afford to let slip by. Top

How do I contact SABIAN if I have a question?
In the USA.
SABIAN Inc,
100 Enterprise Drive,
Marshfield, MA.
02050

Phone: 1-800-81-SABIAN

In Canada
SABIAN,
#219 Main St.
Meductic, NB
E6H 2L5

Phone: 1-506-272-2019

By email @
customerservice@sabian.com
sabian@sabian.com

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DRUM.NET ROCKS

Zildjian Warrenty

Avedis Zildjian Company Warranty Statement
Zildjian Cymbals are guaranteed against manufacturer’s defects for one year from the date of original purchase.

For warranty claims outside the U.S., contact your local Zildjian distributor.

Warranty Process
Cymbals that show factory defects within one year of their original purchase are eligible for examination at our factory. Zildjian experts will evaluate the damage and issue a replacement cymbal, unless it appears the damage is related to improper use or care.

If you believe your cymbal has a factory defect:
1. Contact Zildjian to obtain a Return Authorization number (RA#), via telephone: 781-871-2200.
2. Indicate the location of the damage on the cymbal with a piece of tape.
3. Make a photocopy of your original numbered and dated sales receipt.
4. Carefully package your cymbal. Include your RA# and the photocopy of your sales receipt in the box.
5. Ship the package to:

Avedis Zildjian Company
RA#
22 Longwater Drive
Norwell, MA 02061

A Cymbal will not be replaced if:
1. It has been misplayed, dropped, played with excessive force or treated abusively.
2. The center hole is worn due to improper stand set-up or abusive play.
3. The cymbal was bought second-hand or used in a lease program.
4. The cymbal has previously been replaced by Zildjian.
5. More than one year has passed since the cymbal was purchased.

Warranty Notes:
• Cost of shipping a damaged cymbal to Zildjian is the customers responsibility.
• Factory evaluations take approximately 4 - 6 weeks.
• Cymbals that do not meet the warranty guidelines will be returned to customer.
• Cost of shipping a replacement or damaged cymbal back to the customer will be covered by Zildjian.

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DRUM.NET ROCKS

Paiste Warrenty.

I don't have at the time but am working on it. You can contact them at the following.

Switzerland
Paiste AG
Kantonsstrasse 2
CH-6207 Nottwil
Tel: +41-41-939-3333
Fax: +41-41-939-3366

USA
Paiste America, Inc.
460 Atlas Street
Brea, CA 92821
Tel: +1-714-529-2222
Free: 1-800-472-4783
Fax: +1-714-671-5869

Germany
Paiste GmbH & Co. KG
Gorch-Fock-Str. 13
D-24790 Schacht Audorf
Tel: +49-4331-94790
Fax: +49-4331-947932
E-mail

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DRUM.NET ROCKS

How to clean your cymbals?

First off, the big 3 cymbal manufactures Paiste,

Sabian, and Zildjian all put a protective coating

on their cymbals to help them stay clean and resist

dirt and oils and tarnishing. They also make cymbal

cleaners for all of their cymbals and will always

recomend you use their cleaner on their cymbals.

Yes it is a marketing tool, but they make their

cleaner's a bit more mild and also work well to

help protect the spray finish they put on their

cymbals that can be stripped off by some other

stronger cleaners. Once the protective coating is

gone, the cymbals tarnish more easer. I myself have

used all of the cleaners on their cymbals and they

worked fine. There are a few other company's out

there that make cymbal cleaners such as Grove

Juice, Lizard Spit, Pro-Mark CP 10, and Dunlop 65.

There are more out there but those are just a few.
If you don't want to buy a cymbal cleaner you can

always use a mild soap and warm water and then

quickly wipe them dry with a cotton towel. Don't

worry, the big three even suggest using that

technique. The MOST important thing to remember is

not to use harsh or abrsive or even acidic

cleaners. These will cause the cymbal to break

down.A good example of a harsh cleaner would be

using Brasso. Stay away from it.

When you use a cleaner, make sure you follow all of the directions carefuly. Don't mix and match them.

No Power Buffers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever you do, never use any kind of an eletric

buffer. A buffer creates alot of friction which

heats the cymbal up. When this happens it can cause

the cymbal to warp and cause weaker and uneven spots in the cymbal.

__________________


DRUM.NET ROCKS